We’ve been anxiously awaiting an opportunity to catch up with Frank Filipetti for a chat.  We managed to nail down an hour with the legendary producer, basking in one of his few days off at his home in upstate New York.  Filipetti is known in the industry as a musicians producer (meaning a true artisan of the trade, not merely a button-pusher/beat maker), and has worked with such prolific artists as Roberta Flack, Carly Simon, James Taylor, Elton John, and Barbara Streisand.  He’s also produced tracks for Korn, Hole, Foreigner, and many other bands at the forefront of their perspective genres.  He is not a man who pigeon-holes himself into any specific sonic signature, rather he works to bring out the best performance in the artist.  Having worked in the studio for over thirty years he’s witnessed a continental shift in both the way people listen to music, as well as the actual production/recording of the art form for which his care and devotion are second to none.  Our talk covered everything from the actual process to his opinions on the current state of the music business.  If you are not familiar with Filipetti’s repertoire do a web search, as indie artists it is important to know about our roots.  Here’s part one (part two to be posted ASAP) of our conversation (Filipetti identified as FF, I as MM):

MM: I didn’t realize you had closed the second Right Track Studio/Soundstage in New York City (where a great deal of film music was recorded and produced).  You had mentioned the issue of the musicians union and its lack of support when it came to keeping the work here in the states.

FF: They (the musicians union) put out a flyer after we had to make the decision to close it, stating that between 2001 and 2008 our studio had provided thirty five million dollars worth of business to the New York musicians and that we shouldn’t close it and we shouldn’t be allowed to close it.  We just said look: We’ve been talking to you people for over a year now to make some kind of an effort to get the film companies back and you wouldn’t do it.  So, we’ve closed, and, you can’t stop it, it’s done because we were losing thirty thousand dollars a month at the studio.  So it was something we couldn’t participate in any longer and it’s a shame because it was such a beautiful room and I certainly put my heart and soul into building it.

MM: I remember that Frank, and I gotta tell you, well, when did it open again?

FF: We opened in 2001, and it was right after 9/11, so it was early October 2001.

MM: I remember it well because Arif had just left Atlantic, and so I went to work at Kinetic Records downtown, this little dance label, and I remember getting your invite to come see the new studio.  When I walked in I thought wow, it’s about time!  It was a magnificent room and a great concept, honestly, one of the best live rooms I had ever been in.  It was also right before the big shift in the music business, at the time of the at-home recording explosion, before the drain got yanked out.

FF:  Exactly, but even still, under all those circumstances with the record business going down, the home recording studios and all that, up until around 2006 it was doing terrific because, you know, it was the one place you could record if you wanted to record a film in New York.  The problem is, by 2007, composers, people like Howard Shore and Carter Burwell were being told by the production companies, the film companies that you couldn’t record in New York any longer.  In fact, you couldn’t record in the U.S. anymore, and Carter used to say this is where he wanted to do it!  He told us that on the last two Coen Brothers films (of which he scored) he was told he can’t do them here, and Howard Shore the same thing!  They’re telling him he can’t do it in New York and he has to do it in London.  Carter said the session in London cost more than the session in New York but they got a buy-out.  That’s all the film company wants, they don’t want to be, every time the format changes, having to pay, all over again, these musicians.  Where as, fifteen to twenty years ago, they had to because they had to record in this country, and they no longer have to do that.

FF: So I said to the musicians union: Look, while you got it, and it wasn’t an issue, nobody begrudged you getting that money!

MM: Right! Of course!  Why would they?

FF: I work on a film just as hard as the musicians do and I don’t get those residuals, and I certainly didn’t begrudge you getting them, but I say once you get to a point where the recording business becomes global, not domestic, and you can record anywhere because of the technology now, and the rest of the world gives buy-outs and you won’t, suddenly you’re destroying your business.  Now I do begrudge you and the fact that you’re doing that because not only are you destroying your business, but the peripheral businesses that depend on it!  It’s people who aren’t looking out for the middle guy and the little guy.  They’re only looking out for the hundred or so people with the power, and they’re only looking at their own pockets, and they’re not looking out for the membership of which they’re supposed to be supporting!

MM: Which is the very reason why it was founded (the union).

FF: Again it shows that regardless of the intentions of the founding, once they get the power they’re just as bad, just as greedy, just as despicable as the CEOs of the major corporations.  So what it proves is the old adage that absolute power corrupts absolutely.  This is what happens.  These people are no better than the slime that’s pickin’ off everybody’s 401ks off of Wall Street, and they should be held accountable.

MM: They really should.  You know, I see all this, the money forward, profit forward thinking, well: I’m not so naive, especially having worked under Arif on some major projects, to think that the record business was “all about the music”, obviously these are businesses, but, stuff like this; I actually do believe you see the result in the music itself.

FF: Oh yeah absolutely.

MM: You know, one of the things that really struck me lately, and I’m not going to name names here, but I was reading an interview with these top, you know, A-list artists talking about getting into music to make money, as opposed to being an artist and making music almost because you have to, because it’s what you truly want to do.  You don’t have a choice.

FF: Right!

MM: You know there are artists that got into it, and the money came as a by-product of, perhaps their talent, their management, whatever it was.  But now you got people that are saying you know what?  This is a way to make money.  Where as before we all knew that making money as a musician or an artist was a pipe dream, and if you made it great!  But now it’s like oh, I’ll write a little ditty and it doesn’t have to have much soul to it, but I could sell it to Mitsubishi, or perhaps the people who do the music supervision for Grey’s Anatomy, and it’s just sucked the soul right out of it!  I think anyway.

FF: Well, you know the soul was sucked out of it the day MTV came on the air.

MM: You know what I completely agree.

FF: I mean, it was at that point that the visual became more important than the music itself, and from that point on we lost, that was the day, as far as I’m concerned, that the music died because that was the day that music became something to do as part of something else.  It was an activity that, now, was something that you did along with something else.  You did it while you were jogging, you did it while you were washing the dishes, and you listened to it while you were doing your homework, while you were shopping.  Music became a soundtrack to our lives as opposed to being instrumental in our lives and we found from that point on people lost the ability to sit down and listen to music for its own sake.  I think we’re paying the price for that now, initially, by the record companies starting to focus on artists who look good rather than sound good, and secondly: We started to lose it in the sense that people didn’t want to just listen to music anymore, they wanted it packaged with something else.  We’re now paying the price for that with record companies that stopped things like artist and development budgets, and so forth.  We’re now seeing all that come into fruition because the only artists that we have, that are really long-lasting, are the ones that started in the fifties, sixties, and seventies.

MM: That’s right, and, the irony is back then people were saying you know; take everything you can now because if you think you’re going to be fifty, sixty, or seventy years old rockin’ out well, that’s a dream!

FF: Right!

MM: But they’re doing it, because they do it in a way that people respond to, and so yeah I agree.  I saw that happening at Atlantic when we were starting to work on those DVD music videos, and all of the sudden, you know, that (the DVDs, with live performances or compilations of videos) in and of itself was new then.  This was around 98 or so.  We did a couple of releases: We did Hootie, The Corrs, Sugar Ray, Brandy, and Gloria and I worked our asses off.  Then, all of the sudden that wasn’t enough… Oh wait a minute you don’t have web access, and you’re not giving exclusive content!

FF: From MTV forward, it all became marketing, and that’s where we are today. It’s more about the marketing.  Marketing was always a part of it, but not to the extent it is now. And you know; we keep getting deeper and deeper into focus groups, questionnaires, and into compilations and all this kind of stuff. Because basically, we’re at a point now where everything has to be marketed and tested, and product tested before we do anything with it.

MM: God forbid we follow our gut, like you said.

FF: No, you don’t get any of that.

MM: You know, the old way of A&R; discovering an artist, and having this experience and going “you know, I think people are going to respond to this and the music itself is good and let’s take a chance.”

FF: Well, but not only that; you had record companies, major record companies, who would market an artist, and if they sold 50,000 for the first record, they were ecstatic, and if they sold 150,000 for the second record, they were even more ecstatic!

MM: Right, right (laughing)

FF: By the third, fourth or fifth record, if they got up to 3 or 400,000 they had a smash on their hands.

MM: Absolutely…

FF: The ideal was to build an act and make it happen… Now what they do is go to the least common denominator, it’s like watching television now. It’s all about reaching the most people, as quickly as possible without any thought of how long will this thing live?  What kind of legs does it have? But only, “Let’s put as much pop material into this as we can” This may be the only record these people ever sell.

MM: That’s right and “let’s make the most money now” and if they don’t sell 250 or 500 thousand out the gate, well “We’ll see you later”.

FF: Yes - (enthusiastically) - Exactly!

MM continues: and we’ll keep the masters”

FF: No, they’re making one record deals, they are even making three or four single deals.

MM: Yup, they are indeed.

FF: We’re back to that era again.  The concept of the album deal is rapidly declining, except through things like the independents and stuff like that.

MM: And what they’re doing with the 360, the onslaught of the 360 deals, I gotta tell you: I’ve now met and spoken with a couple of bands that got these deals, and it’s amazing when you actually talk to them Frank.  Because, ya know, let’s be honest, indie artists and artists in general, if they have the right management and the right people to discover them, they have the right team, they should be able to be the artist…. right? That’s what they should do.

FF: Yeah.

MM continues: and their people take care of everything else.  But I’ve met a couple of bands that have signed these 360 deals and when I talk to them about it, you know, they don’t even get that they’ve given up the keys to everything. They don’t even know!

FF: Well, and those that do know, unfortunately, by the time they find it out, it’s too late.

MM: That’s right.

FF: But again, not to say that even if they knew ahead of time what they were giving up, they wouldn’t do it anyway.

MM: That’s right, unfortunately (laughing) yeah…

FF: The bottom line is: Right now there’s no one that has any clue about the way to go. But with the 360 deals, the record company is saying “Look, we’re probably not going to sell your record, so we want to be able to make money some other way.”

(Both laughing)

FF: It’s pretty much an admission of what to expect anyway.  But, it’s a nightmare and it wouldn’t be as much of a nightmare if it weren’t for the fact that the music itself sucks as well, ya know, we’re really in the middle of a real holding pattern here.  I remember back in 1960-61, or something, where music was getting really dreadful. And then along comes the British Invasion, with The Beatles and so fourth, and it rejuvenated an industry. One can only hope that something comes along similar to that creatively, that will spark this industry again.

MM: Absolutely! Oh God, it’s amazing that we think so alike in some ways, and I think it’s because of the school that I come from as well, working for Arif.  I’ve been thinkin’ that way, and the one positive aspect that I am seeing, the only positive aspect Frank, that I’ve noticed through all this, and it’s funny cause it almost started with Norah Jones in a way but then came off and now it’s comin’ back: There seems to be, and you have to really look like anything else, but there seems to be this kind of renaissance of the singer/songwriter

FF: Yeah!

MM continues: Focused on the song. You know, I’m discovering these young artists who again, are out there performing, just to do it. You know what I mean?

FF: Yeah, I do.

MM: They haven’t yet been bitten by that marketing bug or anything. There is some honest music out there.  The trouble is finding it.

FF: Yes

MM: But at least it’s there.

FF: No, absolutely, no question.

MM: So speaking of that, when it comes to producers, here’s something obviously I take to heart, you know, when someone actually calls themselves a “producer”, whether they are the button pusher producer or they are the one who has a vision to get more out of the artist.  The magic behind Arif was: As I listen to a lot of his stuff, and my cousin Kenny pointed this out as well (who’s worked with Stevie Wonder for years): If you listen to a lot of the stuff he has produced throughout the years, it’s like going through a time capsule.  Starting from back in his early days, the Dusty Springfield days- right up to Norah, he didn’t seem to impose his own signature.  His mission was to get everything he could out of the artist.

FF: Right!

MM: I remember when he worked with Jewel, and he literally mapped out her vocal range, and she didn’t think she was going to be able to hit those high notes in Ave Maria, and he was like “you can and you will.” Is that common? Do you see anyone else doing that now aside of yourself?

FF: Not really.  Certainly not any of the newer crop of producers. Producing has changed, in terms of what a producer does. Back twenty, thirty years ago, the producer was the A&R man, providing the Artist and Repertoire.  He occasionally provided what they would sing, he provided the people that would help with the songs, he provided help.  Like in Arif’s case with the arrangements, or he would hire these  people. The whole point was to put together a group of people that would best serve the artist. Whether the artist was jazz, rock, pop, classical, or whatever they happened to be.  To bring together this little organization that would all be at the service of the artist and make the best album possible, creating an environment for the artist where their creativity would be able to flower.

MM: Right on.

FF: The producer today is someone that goes in and makes up a beat, (it all starts with the beat).  They come with some type of rhythm or they put that beat together, and they spend days in the studio trying to come up with interesting beats. Then they put the music over the top of it and start playing around with things, and then at some point, either a rap or lyric over the top of that, and feed it to whomever their current artist is at the time. Almost without any thought of whom that artist is.

MM: Right, it’s crazy.

FF: The concept is; “come up with the beat, come up with the track, put somebody on it.” And unless it’s a producer/artist like a Jay Z or a Kanye West, or somebody like that, that is basically how it’s done.  Now, someone like a Rihanna will go and say “OK Kanye, I want you to write and produce a track for me,” and they will make a track for a particular artist.  But the bottom line is that track; you could put thirty different people on that track and it wouldn’t make a difference.  There would be no difference in how it was sung or how it was performed or played because the track itself is “the king” and what goes on top of it, hopefully, will not have too much range.  It will be as close to a nursery rhyme as we can get, and be very sing-songy and very repetitious.

FF: So what happens is, rather than getting diversified artists such as a Neil Young and a Bob Dylan, and a Paul McCartney, and a John Lennon and an Eric Clapton and ya know, just on and on and on.

MM: They start to sound packaged.

FF: They all sound packaged and put together. Ya know, you had a Brian Wilson, you had a Frank Zappa, all these incredibly divergent and different kinds of people.  Now the really big producers in the industry are all in very, very, very similar territory.

MM: Right, you’re nailin’ it.

FF: The play list for records and radio is all very narrow and very manipulated and very repetitious.  Consequently, you’re finding that in many instances, people who really crave for real songs and real music are finding other avenues. I think one of the reasons that a thing like American Idol is so huge, is not only the drama in the show, but the fact that most of these people are singing songs from the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s and 80’s.

MM: Yes!  That’s true.

FF: These are songs when people sang songs, and we’re looking at people that actually do have talent and are able to tune and we are not looking at production numbers.  I think that the job of the producer has changed dramatically.  I think guys like Arif and so forth, as wonderful and great as they are, I don’t think they are the economic driving force in the industry right now.  Their style has been phased out, and one can only hope that with this new group of singer/songwriter types, and small independent bands, that the age of the producer, who really did exactly that, comes back.

MM: I really hope so too.  In today’s world of packaged pop stars, instant media, and instant information delivery, is it still relevant to think that the traditional way for an artist to focus on their songs, get out there and play, build a fan base, try to find a good team to get themselves on - Do you think that the old way of development is still relevant? I think it should be more than ever but do you think that someone should spend their time that way?

FF: Absolutely.  First of all: If we have learned anything in the past fifty years, there’s no right way to do anything. There is no way that guarantees you success and there is no way that you can say “Oh, that’s not gonna work.”  Things come from out of nowhere, and innovation is one of the keys to all this, and right now we’re not being very innovative.  Why? Because it’s not rewarded.  What’s rewarded is doing what somebody did last week.  All you’ve got to do is look at the TV and see what’s going on with television shows.  You get one CSI and next year there’s fifty different programs based on the same thing. Innovation is never rewarded, whether it’s making music or making a television pilot, or musicals on Broadway, or whatever is happens to be.

FF: These things have become so costly that people want a built-in audience before they even go.  So, the idea of taking a risk or innovation is not rewarded anymore.  That doesn’t mean there aren’t people that do that, and they really do get somewhere.  But the fact is, right now, mediocrity is the name of the game and this is the time we’re in.  But it’s only the name of the game the same way that is was in the early sixties.  Because there was something that came along, that suddenly blew mediocrity out of the water, and made it apparent to everybody for what it really was.  You suddenly had the Beatles, and the Stones, and the Kinks and the Yardbirds, and these people that came along and said “This Franky Avalon sh– is not where it’s at”.  “You guys have dropped the ball and we’re gonna pick up where the blues guys left off and we’re gonna take you in a new direction.”

MM: Right on!

FF: We need that kind of action now, and it seems to me, with the worldwide access of the internet, that it’s even easier to achieve than it was forty years ago.  I mean, it took Brian Epstein to bring all that stuff to the floor.  Now, someone with that kind of style and so forth can almost do that overnight.

Part II coming ASAP - fyi: The man in the picture above with Filipetti is Phil Ramon